Friday, June 26, 2009

Episode 3 of the Solution to Donald's Trefusis - Cinema Cinema Cinema

Quickly a breakdown of the info available.

Film A - Trefusis saw this aged 17, he was born three years after the war ended. So, born 1921 (not 1920 as I originally postulated), film is out 1937 (although this still fits with a 1920 date, odd, must be the fact that while the IMDB lists the film as being released in 1937, it probably didn't come out in the UK until a year later). Leonard the 'chicken chaser' was in the film, his nickname for which he was world famous derived from a chicken.

Perhaps his best scene, involved ice-cream and the selling of a code book. Julius and Arthur were also on top form.

So who are we talking about? Let's ask Sir Googleton Smyth:

Apparently it's the Marx brothers, as Leonard, a.k.a Chico was so called as he originally chased a lot of women, and not in fact Chickens as one would presume if told someone was a chicken chaser.

And the film is?

A Day at the races


Featuring the famous ice cream scene.

Trefusis says 'what larks' but insists he's a 'letter out'....That letter being 'M'? Marx? As in Marx Brothers? As in the EXACT PEOPLE I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT?

Amazing.

So, the dance?

Apparently it's a dance called the Lindy Hop which is based on the Charleston, named after the Lindbergh baby - Charles Lindbergh who I think was the first pilot to fly directly at Hitler in broad daylight....but more of that later. Lindbergh was the man who first flew solo across the Atlantic, in 1927. He was also known as The Lone Eagle.

This video shows the Lindy Hop which as a dance might explain why people were so thin back then.


There was a dancer, uncredited in the famous dance scene and it looks like it's Dorothy Dandridge.

So, 30 years later and Stephen Fry is born, we are now transported to 1957 when a film about Charles Lindbergh is released. This is FILM B....and what, Duke Googleeton is it?

The Spirit of St Louis

Film star in it? James Stewart he played Lindbergh in the film.

Bertolt Brecht, Kurt Weill and Paul Hindemith wrote a musical play about Lindbergh, called?

The Flight Across the Ocean


All falling into place a lot easier than the last episode's clues.

So, the producer of Film A is mentioned, in this case the IMDB tells us this is:

Irving Thalberg (Not Sam Wood as the imdb says initially)


Apparently F Scott Fitzgerald based the character of Monroe Stahr in The Last Tycoon upon Thalberg.


So back on track with the mentioning of the dancer lady from Film A again. And we're pretty sure it's


Dorothy Dandridge. And it was Halle Berry who dedicated her oscar to Dandridge when accepting it.

Then Trefusis/ Fry goes on about the 'first first' which is a phrase I've not heard before.

The first first's name leads us to the answer of our puzzle apparently. But what the hell is a first first?

Maybe it's a deliberate play on Ferst? So who was the first Ferst?

Gah!....more clues please.

Slaves were common in the Roman empire, who was the Statesman who turned his back on the power in rome? He has a city named after him and in it there was a death in 1911- whoever died then had the same name as the first first..

The statesman has got to be Cicero right?

But what city? How's about Cicero Illinois / New York / Wisconsin or Indiana, take your pick?

And in 1911?

Nothing yet....but it's late and I need sleep...

-UPDATE-

Awake again and I realise it's not Cicero. It has to be:

Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus


He famously turned his back on Rome and obviously the city named after him is Cincinnati.

Where, and this is early Googley so forgive the mistakes:

Catherina Hattler died in 1911.

Or perhaps it's Mary Broockbank who also died that year.


More updates later...


-UPDATE -

Just realised that the first first has got to refer to the first 'first lady' of American politics. Martha Washington. Perhaps not though but it fits too well not to be the case.

I was having a moment of doubt and then i found this:

MARTHA DANDRIDGE CUSTIS WASHINGTON


So, the first connection is Dandridge.

More later as I figure it out....


-UPDATE-


So according to Donald Trefusis' twitter feed it's not 1911, but 1914. So, the answer appears to be a carrier pidgeon named Martha Washington, named after the first first. It was the last known example of a passenger pidgeon.

Passenger Pidgeons.

She was frozen and transported to the Smithsonian musuem.


Incidentally if you do a search for Boswell and Smithsonian you get this:

James Boswell in the Smithsonian Magazine.

Might be nothing....but might be something. Or it might be nothing.



Or maybe, it might be something.


--UPDATE--

Reading Trefusis' Twitter feed gives us this:

My feeling is that when you have the answers, you should make a note of them and await the final instalment, when all will be clear. DT


So it seems that looking for links between this part and episode 2 might be a waste of time.

Very Interesting Update

I decided to take a chance and harness the power of the internet, bowing to those with far greater knowledge in this area I emailed Patricia Brady, an historian who has written a book about Martha Washington. I didn’t think she’d have time to reply but she did and answered my questions fully which was very kind of her, I suggest you check out her website here.

Anyway, here’s the essence of her reply to my question about there being a possible link from Martha Washington to Dorothy Dendridge via a slave connection.

There is one known (for sure) line of descent from MW's grandson, GW Custis,
and a slave. They are a well-known family in DC. There is another
less-verified but quite possible descent from her son Jacky Custis. Some
people have argued, incorrectly, I think, that MW's had a secret half-sister
by her father and a black/Indian woman.

Well this is very interesting and it was very good of Patricia to reply to me. She also provided me a possible other lead which I will follow up before posting details of it here.

20 comments:

  1. for some reason I ended up in Washington. the great statesman I got was Cincinnatus, named after him is Cincinnati. Cincinnatus was the hero of George Washington who was "considered a latter day Cincinnatus, the Roman who was called to serve Rome as dictator, an office which he immediately resigned after completing his task of defeating the Aequians." (wikipedia, cincinnati)
    Washington is named after (of course) George Washington, the latter day "roman statesman".
    in Washington, George Washington Vanderbilt II died in 1914.
    All those Washington's drive me crazy. wouldn't it be too easy?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Thanks for leaving a comment, I've been eagerly checking back here to see who would be the first person to comment and if my prediction of it being you would be correct. Turns out I was spot on.

    Regarding the Washington thing, it's a good parallel only let down by the gender issue which seems to dictate that the connection has got to be female.

    That said, there are others out there taking it a lot further than I so far have (investigating the history of Martha Washington's family etc) so you might be correct.

    I wish these episodes were harder though, while it's fun to chase through the green fields of Google, it generally only takes a few hours to solve it. The graphic nature of episode one took longer and was more satisfactory when I connected the dots.

    I bet episode 4 will be music based, some snippet of music played and we've to figure out who composed it etc. etc. My guess is Wagner.

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  3. I thought I would post my notes, after reading that the first first lady that was so clear to me wasn't all that clear to you (and maybe others), so maybe I have gone completely in the wrong direction...

    so. notes:

    //start notes
    - NOT 1911! 1914

    - DT born three years after ending of ww I --> war ended 1918, DT born 1921 // or 1920? (must be 1920, because of the films. confusing old man)

    Film A (age 17 -->1938 or 1937):
    * leonard the chicken chaser: Leonard "Chico" Marx
    * a day at the races
    * the last tycoon: Irving Thalberg
    * lindy hop dance (oh, if ever a dance had a stupid name...!)
    * uncredited lady --> Dorothy Jean Dandridge (Halle Berry dedicated her oscar 1999 to dd)



    Film B:

    * the lone eagle / lucky --> charles lindbergh
    * actor: (airforce colonel) James Stewart
    * The Spirit of St. Louis


    person who died in 1914 with the same name as the first first (lady (of america?) who shared a name with the uncredited lady in the first film (person who died 1914: same first name or same last name?)

    name of the first first lady of the usa: Martha Crustis Washington (née Dandrige)!!

    Place named after a great roman statesman "tilling his fields": Cincinnatus?
    Cincinnati? OR: cincinnatus was the hero of George Washington, after whom Washington is named.
    I Washington DC, George Washinton Vanderbilt II died in 1914

    what did we need the last tycoon for? just additional input to solve the film puzzle?

    //end notes

    So I guess I'll search the net for a person aho died in Cincinnati in 1914. it is to easy with all the washningtons...

    //

    "...and if my prediction of it being you would be correct."

    you freak me out. who are you? have we met in the depths of the scary world wide web?

    ReplyDelete
  4. me again (changed my nickname back to how it should be ;-) )

    notes from today:

    Ok.
    So, maybe it's not the last name but the first name (Martha) and it is actually Cincinnati and not Washington?

    Googling "Martha died in 1914 cincinnati" leads me straight to the last known Passenger Pidgeon that died in Cincinnati Zoo in 1914.

    Quite a famous bird, as it seems! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Pigeon#Martha.

    she was even named after Martha Washington. Clever: not the first OR the last name. BOTH names!

    She was frozen into a block of ice and sent to the Smithsonian Institution.
    Again, we are in Washington D.C.

    HAH! it was all about the Washington's after all. and the Martha's. I have a scary great aunt called Martha.

    And I think if I had the solution of the last puzzle (the paintings), that (Smithsonian) would probably tell me something. grrr.

    So I'm going (again) to try and find out something about those paintings. Or just read your solution if I'm too lazy ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  5. Weird, for some reason I've always thought WWI ended in 1917, hence my calculations coming out as DT being born in 1920. Thing is, don't they make sense with a 1920 timeline? Versaille was in 1918 which obviously is the answer...I wonder why I've always thought it was 1917.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Also, don't suppose you know how to make Blogger post all the comments visibly underneath each blog entry I make? I presume it has something to do with making each entry appear on a separate page but I can't figure it out.

    Where are you stuck on the paintings? I'll point you in the correct direction if I can, although maybe you've progressed further than I did.

    ReplyDelete
  7. well, every source I could find said WWI ended 1918, that's why I first had trouble with the films. But DT must have been born in 1920 BECAUSE of the films he mentionend. well, he mixed up those other years (1911/14), so I guess he's just a bit confused. and confusing.

    (and again: who are you? have we met somewhere else in the www?)

    ReplyDelete
  8. Have amended my original posting about the dates of film A, I'm guessing a 1937 US release would equate to a 1938 UK release. Year gaps I think might not have been uncommon back then, seeing as the film was probably sent across the ocean by passenger pidgeon.

    ReplyDelete
  9. about displaying comments: I see all the comments underneath the post they belong to. after I click on "8 comments", that is. in the june overview they are not displayed... is that what you want?

    about the paintings: I gave up on them long ago. couldn't find any of them. I did find the diary but ignored it, shame on me... I think I will start with the painting puzzle again tonight.

    was there anything to find out in the first episode of the dongle?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hmm...the comment thing I mean is the displaying of comments all on the same page as the initial blog entry. Perhaps it's not possible but I'm sure I've seen other Blogger blogs do it.

    Anyway, in terms of helping you on your way with episode 2, think about the websites of places where paintings are kept and start there. Descriptive terms etc will help, I didn't know who painted either of them or who the man in painting 2 was so it can be done!

    Episode 1, don't think there's anything in it but I might be wrong.

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  11. I worked on the painting puzzle for a few minutes (am at work, so don't have much time) but I don't remember the actual question. there were many questions, of course. but the "big" question I have forgotten.
    was the "alexander the great" he spoke of the real alexander the great? or just a great alexander (boswell?)?

    bacuase apparently alexander the great died in the palace of nebuchadnezzar in babylon. no Balmuto in sight here...

    ReplyDelete
  12. Yeah I never found a mention anywhere of the name of the house that the actual Alexander the great died in. However, Trefusis actually says 'Alexander died in a house called Balmuto', he never says 'Alexander the great died in a house...', he had just been talking about Alexander the great but was probably using that as a diversion.

    Incidentally, the Nebuchadnezzar was the name of the ship in the Matrix movie i think.

    The big question in part one was, as far as I can remember, how is the man in painting 2 linked to the provenance of painting 1. Read into the word 'provenance' what you will.

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  13. So. I'm at it now.
    Alexander died in a house called Balmuto. right! Probably the great one was just mentioned to have a reason to say the name Alexander... evil! ;-)

    For now I'm thinking it's Alexander Boswell.

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  14. By the way, it's probably a good idea not to take my word for the eact phrasing of episode 2 as it's been a while since I listened to it. I'll help where i can though, but do listen to it again if you are able.

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  15. I am listening. And I'm almost done. wait some 30 minutes and you should hear from me. will write a comment to your entry about the painting-puzzle.

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  16. I've created a Mind Map (see http://www.xmind.net/ ) with all of the information in the actual episodes, as well as the facts unearthed by people on blogs like this. You can view or download it for free at:

    http://share.xmind.net/robhafernik/the-dongle-of-donald-trefusis/

    Let me know if you have corrections or changes,

    ~rob
    realrob -at sign- hafernik.com

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  17. Fascinating. I’m afraid I just don't have the time or brain to investigate this entirely for myself; your labours are an outstanding appendage to the audio series itself...

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  18. "The Great Stuart" you found was named *James* Stuart. The actor James *Stewart* starred in
    _ The Spirit of St. Louis _. Film B was the connection to episode one. The Martha Washington/Passenger Pigeon connection was brilliant! I was going through a Hallee Berry geneology site screaming "They've all died in the Cleveland area since the 18th century, for god's sake!", much to my neglected wife's chagrin. You have eased my fragile mind. Thank you!

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  19. Glad to have been of assistance, now if Fry the younger would just get around to recording Episode 4 all would be relatively right with the world.

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  20. Everyone's talkin' 'bout chickens
    Chicken's a popular word
    Well you can call them this or you can all them that
    A chicken ain't nothin' but a bird

    Chicken inspector

    ReplyDelete

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